Mini Funtana

[Sev Fontaine]

After many considerations for an electric aerobat. I decided to get a Mini Funtana by E-flight. I really wanted a G400X Stella by Stevens Aero but price made the difference at this time. Maybe i'll pick one up at Neat this fall.
I ignored many recommendations to strenghten the landing gear mounting plate as most people rip it out on anything less than a perfect landing. I paid the price. On my second flight I landed pretty good but one of the wheels got caught up on a small patch of grass and ended up ripping the landing gear mounting plate from the fuselage. I swear the god... This thing must of been glued on there with water cause it came out way to easily.
I just picked up some light ply to replace the landing gear mount and will make sure it never comes out again.
If it's happening to everyone... I wonder why E-flight won't bother to update the design.
Other than that... This plane is a real blast to fly. I have it equipped with an E-Flight Park 450 Outrunner, CC Thunderbird 18, Thunder power 1320 Pro Lite and a small Blue Bird receiver for the time being. This power system gives me more than enough power to shoot out of a hover. As this is my first 3D type airplane I thought it would be a real handfull but it flies great. It goes exactly where you point it.
346

[Tom Hastie]

Yeah... except for the lack of inherent stability, 3D planes are real pussy cats so long as you don't go nuts with the control throws and use an appropriate amount of expo. This is mostly due to light wingloading - means you have to really abuse the elevator channel to get a wing to drop.

Have you tried knife edge on it? How much coupling is there. (i.e. does it want to roll or pitch when you add rudder to hold knife edge?)

Another key metric (for me at least) in 3D performance is the amount of wing-rock in harrier. We might hafta arrange some flight tests :D

Tom

[Sev Fontaine]

I only tried Knife edge once and it had much less coupling than my Orville that's for sure. It was my first flight and a bit windy so it's still too early to say for sure. Tom... I'd like for you to try a harrier and give me your input on wing rock. Some people think it has too much of it and others don't. There are such different reviews out there about this plane that you kind of have to make your own opinion. I'd also like your opinion on setup. e.g. expo rates, flight condition setups, etc...
Yesterday I fixed the landing gear mounting plate and also sealed my aileron hinges. She is now ready to go again.

[Sev Fontaine]

Well... I had a great third flight this morning. No sun, no wind and no rain! :)
I was practicing knife edges and harriers. There is a little bit of elevator coupling in knife edge but nothing that can't be mixed out. Harriers are easier than I thought. There is a little bit of wing rock but I was able to compensate and stop the rocking using my ailerons. I was able to stay in the harrier the full length of the soccer field. The only question I have is: is it normal that the aircraft turns to one side in harrier but not in level flight? I trimmed out my rudder using the usual techniques. Straight level, inverted level and vertical climb. The motor mount has some down thrust and right thrust.
Am I missing something or is it completely normal to have to use slight rudder to stay in a straight line during a harrier?
Thanks for the help!

[Psikelly]

What kind of flight times are you getting with that setup? Im considering getting a mini but the motor I have is a 400 970kv outrunner but I dont know if it will be enough power for the mini. Im running it on a mini sportster and it wont quite hover. Dont wanna get a mini funt then have to drop another 100 bucks on a 450

[Sev Fontaine]

Well... since i've only had 3 flights with it I can't say for sure. The maximum flight I had was approximately 15 minutes and I brought it down. The 450 is probably the minimum amount of power required to get out of a sticky situation during 3D. Since your mini sportster is listed at 22 to 24 oz AUW and the mini Funtana is listed at 22 to 25 oz AUW. The performance of your 400 would pretty much be the exact same in either planes. If you really want to 3D with your motor... I would suggest the Stevens Aeromodel G400X Stella. It has an all up weight of 16.5 oz with similar dimensions to the mini funtana. The great advantage here is you'll also have a much lower wing loading.

[Tom Hastie]

The only question I have is: is it normal that the aircraft turns to one side in harrier but not in level flight?

Yeah... different planes have different amount of rudder required to maintain straight lines in harrier, but most of them aren't all that noticable.

What's happening is that at such a high wing angle of attack your downgoing propeller blade has a much higher propeller angle of attack and therefore makes more thrust on that side of the propeller disk. (This is the same reason why full scale pilots have to hold right rudder while climbing).

Long story short... just hold whatever rudder you need to keep the plane going straight. That's why our controls are proportional :) It's also a good habit to get that left thumb moving as requried in both axes.

P.S. Try some inverted harriers at altitude. They're really kinda scary at first, but I found that the wing rock was hugely reduced with the rudder flying in undisturbed airflow. The only mental block to get over is steering the plane around with a reversed rudder when inverted. It's also a little disconcerting at first to be low to the ground, inverted, with your down elevator control pinned :) But that's why we do it... eh?

Tom

[JeffElecRC]

Here's a question, when you said you could mix-out the coupling, how would you do that without affecting flight in other modes? Would you have a switch that you flip when you are flying knife-edge? is that usual for these types of aircraft.

I ask because I'm hoping to buy cgroves' old Mini Funtana and I havent flown this type of plane yet (aside from in simulator).

[Sev Fontaine]

Yes, I'd set it up on a switch to either turn on the mix or not. I'm not sure if that's how other people do it though!
Thanks Tom... I was really wondering about that.

[Psikelly]

Yah I checked out the Stella. I like the look of that plane a lot.Add 1 more to the wish list.

[Tom Hastie]

Here's a question, when you said you could mix-out the coupling, how would you do that without affecting flight in other modes?

Personally, I mix out the knife edge coupling, and leave that mix on ALL the time.

Remember, when it's in the air, the plane doesn't know which way is up. So if you need up elevator with rudder in knife edge, you're also going to need some up elevator in straight and level flight when you hit the rudder.

In fact, if you watch the Flyingcirkus.com video on trimming, they advocate setting up your rudder->aileron and rudder->elevator mixes while in level flight. They set up the mixes so they can simply hit the rudder while in level flight and do a flat "boat turn" without rolling or pitching. Their trim setup is with IMAC in mind, and during htat type of flying there really isn't that much knife edge. The rudder is mostly for directional correction in all attitudes.

Another thing I like to do is setup the throw and expo on the elevator and rudder so that they feel "the same". That is, full deflection elevator will cause the same(ish) amount of pitch up as full deflection rudder will lift the nose in knife edge. (hope I explained that understandably). This makes doing rolling harriers easier because the two axes feel the same.

Hmmm... maybe we need an aircraft trimming and 3D setup thread :)

Tom

[JeffElecRC]

Sev, here is a screen-shot of your power draw. Next time you can try in-flight.

Jeff

[Sev Fontaine]

Thank you very much for that. I was really wondering if i was running within spec with the motor prop combo.
This motor is good to 18 amps peak so at 17 it sounds about right. I could probably get away with a little bit more power but I won't risk it.

[Tom Hastie]

I could probably get away with a little bit more power but I won't risk it.

Pah... what fun is that?

Tom

[JeffElecRC]

Maidened my new/used Mini Funtana today, even on low rates it flies very nice. Like Sev says, it really goes where you point it. I replaced the stock gearbox with a Cobri/Brute CNC box, tossed on a 12x3.8SF prop, and I was able to remove the lead weights corey had on there and still get it to CG around 85 mm.

Now Tom needs to start a 3D trimming thread.:D

[Sev Fontaine]

Jeff, I was wondering where you bought your DPR-50.
I checked out bnbproducts.com but I always prefer to buy from a canadian company if possible.

[JeffElecRC]

Sev, I got it from Zebrahobby.ca.